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Thread: Watermarking application

  1. #1

    Watermarking application

    Hi,
    I wanted to know what is the best way to implement Watermarking on application
    Like many SW i.e.: IDA, CoreImpact etc..

    I wanted to know why is it so hard to remove those watermarking even if i have a copy of the same applications that have 2 diffrent watermarking..

  2. #2

    As Above

    Unlike ASSEMBLY LINE software (that is MASS produced), IDA gets COMPILED for EACH USER. And it has CODE fragments, without which it cannot function, that are related to EACH USER.

    The moment a cracked release of IDA appears on the scene, its very easy for Ilfak to determine the source of the leakage.

    This would, perhaps, be the BEST way to implement watermarking.

    And I'm sorry, I haven't really understood your second question.

    Have Phun
    Blame Microsoft, get l337 !!

  3. #3
    Musician member evaluator's Avatar
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    well, against such watermarking: you need 2 or more copies of product to compare between; then you can use protection (like VM) or re-manage code in founded differences.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Unlike ASSEMBLY LINE software (that is MASS produced), IDA gets COMPILED for EACH USER. And it has CODE fragments, without which it cannot function, that are related to EACH USER.

    The moment a cracked release of IDA appears on the scene, its very easy for Ilfak to determine the source of the leakage.

    This would, perhaps, be the BEST way to implement watermarking.

    And I'm sorry, I haven't really understood your second question.

    Have Phun
    Can you elaborate on the "CODE fragments" ?
    if i have an application i want to know why each time i'm compiling it i will have a diffrent
    "CODE fregment" ? how does this works exactly ?


    Thanks,
    LaBBa.

  5. #5
    Musician member evaluator's Avatar
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    too easy question LaBBa.
    each time you will compile different source, so code will diff..

  6. #6
    i know... but i'm sure you know when you have a product you are allways compiling the same features and the same code..
    how one make a code that he can change each time and still have the same functionality.

    how one impliment such a design in his code?
    if you have a reference for me to read about this topic it would be nice.

    Thanks,
    Labba.

  7. #7
    <script>alert(0)</script> disavowed's Avatar
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    Let's say I have the following program:

    Code:
    void PrintWorld()
    {
        printf(" World");
    }
    
    void PrintHello()
    {
        printf("Hello");
    }
    
    int main(int argc, char** argv)
    {
        PrintHello();
        PrintWorld();
    }
    These functions could be arranged in the compiled object in 6 different permutations:

    1. PrintWorld
      PrintHello
      main
    2. PrintWorld
      main
      PrintHello
    3. PrintHello
      PrintWorld
      main
    4. main
      PrintHello
      PrintWorld
    5. main
      PrintWorld
      PrintHello
    6. PrintHello
      main
      PrintWorld


    Now I could compile in order #3 and give it to you, and I could compile in order #5 and give it to evaluator. They're both functionally equivalent, but the code fragments are in unique orders.

  8. #8
    Musician member evaluator's Avatar
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    then i will disaVOWassembe that & reassemble in BIASed way..

  9. #9
    <script>alert(0)</script> disavowed's Avatar
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    I never said it was foolproof

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by evaluator View Post
    then i will disaVOWassembe that & reassemble in BIASed way..
    so you have a better way to do it ? (the watermarking)

  11. #11
    Musician member evaluator's Avatar
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    best way is make it FREEWARE! YEY!
    less best - buy protector which will do that
    good way, already given to you>
    do recompile each time, putting some changed/shuffled code//constants.

    PS. letz clear, we aren't going to help you :P
    (if you have such hidden hope)

  12. #12
    i'm just trying to understand the watermarking methods since i have 2 copies of an app
    that is watermarked (diffrent license vendors)...
    didn't found any good artical about that yet...
    so here was my natural place to ask such a question (i'm a member here over 8 years.)
    Last edited by LaBBa; November 27th, 2010 at 15:31.

  13. #13
    Administrator dELTA's Avatar
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    A watermark can be absolutely anything that will preserve identical functionality of the application (to a satisfying degree anyway) while still embedding uniquely extractable information in it. If it it a good watermark, it is designed in a way so that its removal will interfere with the functioning of the application, but this is absolutely not necessary, and neither always the case.

    After this definition, it's just up to your imagination. You say you have two copies with different watermarks? Well then, what are you waiting for, analyze where the differences are in the two copies, to see what clever (or not so clever) solutions to this problem that the software vendor in question has come up with!

    If you need help with that analysis, you will most likely get it here as long as you show enough own effort and share enough relevant details.
    "Give a man a quote from the FAQ, and he'll ignore it. Print the FAQ, shove it up his ass, kick him in the balls, DDoS his ass and kick/ban him, and the point usually gets through eventually."

  14. #14
    Musician member evaluator's Avatar
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    (i'm a member here over 8 years.)
    EXACTLY bcos of this!!
    after such time you are asking simplest questions..
    so if you not found good article, then instead of do analyze, you are asking good article?
    maybe, you have not talent for reversing..

  15. #15
    well.. as far as i can remember your 9+ years still havn't taught you any manners

    i'm not a guru in the RE world, just my hobby..
    and since i never go realy in depth into RE world, from time to time i need help..
    like anyone else.. (ok, maybe not you.. )

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