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Thread: User-mode debugger with SoftICE UI

  1. #1

  2. #2
    why ppl with skill and determination choose to make crappy debuggers today.... this one - might be good overall but GUI makes it hardly usable. windbg? likewise. ollydbg? no x64 support = bad.. fdbg? no x86 support = not good either... IDA is the one and only i guess, but with no new versions leaking we are doomed also. my pockets are not that deep heh.

  3. #3
    <script>alert(0)</script> disavowed's Avatar
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    one of these day's i'd like to write an ollydbg-like frontend for windbg, but if someone creates it before me, i don't mind

  4. #4
    not an easy task. is it possible by plugins or something like that? because if you go through rce and hooking then single update would break things up...

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by roxaz View Post
    why ppl with skill and determination choose to make crappy debuggers today.... this one - might be good overall but GUI makes it hardly usable.
    Speak for yourself -- some people think SoftICE is the epitome of what a debugger should look like.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by RolfRolles View Post
    Speak for yourself -- some people think SoftICE is the epitome of what a debugger should look like.
    some ppl even think SoftICE is a dos window

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RolfRolles View Post
    Speak for yourself -- some people think SoftICE is the epitome of what a debugger should look like.
    well.... then in my opinion those ppl are idiots. oh well, its just opinion of the noob.. anyway i dont have much against look as long as it doesnt make debugger hard to use. ofc now you can say that if im not capable to use such debugger then i shouldnt.... and if so then i would like to point out that you are type of angry unix dude that lives in 80-ties and uses vi text editor =]

    dont get me wrong tho, i dont aim to flame you. i just point out that advanced techniques to modern programming languages and capabilities of our OSs should be used to make our lifes easier. windbg is perfect example. magnificent debugger with crappy GUI = not too popular. in the other side stands IDA, even if its not 1337 debugger - its graph view its everything to me. speeds up debugging and analysis so much.

    i hope you get my point

    oh and by the way i sure speak for myself, but i use common sense, and that means my points should apply at least to majority of reasonably thinking people =]

  8. #8
    <script>alert(0)</script> disavowed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roxaz View Post
    not an easy task. is it possible by plugins or something like that? because if you go through rce and hooking then single update would break things up...
    yes, windbg has a good enough plugin interface

  9. #9
    Administrator dELTA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by disavowed View Post
    one of these day's i'd like to write an ollydbg-like frontend for windbg, but if someone creates it before me, i don't mind
    Someone indeed did (even though improvement is of course always possible):

    http://www.woodmann.com/collaborative/tools/index.php/GUI_WinDbg
    "Give a man a quote from the FAQ, and he'll ignore it. Print the FAQ, shove it up his ass, kick him in the balls, DDoS his ass and kick/ban him, and the point usually gets through eventually."

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by RolfRolles View Post
    Speak for yourself -- some people think SoftICE is the epitome of what a debugger should look like.
    Count me in

  11. #11
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    Yeah, I too remained with the softice mentality and can't adapt really.

    Just a few considerations I want to make. First off, reversing needs are not a priority for most companies. Most debugging occurs at "I write an application and it crashes and I need to find out why" level. For these tasks most of the time integrated debuggers like the one provided by VC++ are more than enough. Not even mentioning the fact that the most used languages are not the low level ones like C/C++, but interpreted ones and those are much easier to debug. (sure serious apps are still written in C/C++, but I'm talking about the majority not the quality here) The needs of a reverser reach far beyond those of a developer.

    Secondly, GUIs are developed in an environment. Have you ever noticed that one of the few serious environments for GUIs is qt and it is getting wide-spread only now? Packing lots of information in little sub-windows like in ollydbg isn't easy (nor pleasant) and if anyone has ever used win32 or mfc then he knows what I mean.

    I think it is highly admirable that one takes so much time to write a debugger like ollydbg for free. I am not surprised about the low quality, but about the high quality, considering that most them are hobby projects.

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