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Thread: Update on Fravia's health #2

  1. #1
    <script>alert(0)</script> disavowed's Avatar
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    Unhappy Update on Fravia's health #2

    Very sad news:
    http://www.searchlores.org/swansong.htm

    Thanks to wtbw for bringing this to my attention.

    If any of you are religious/spiritual, I encourage you to pray for a miracle for fravia+.

  2. #2
    There is way too much of this slow and/or quick wasting death. It is, in deed, very sad that such an interesting mind and personality may soon be stilled, but, if "the gods" will it, he will have left a lasting legacy for those of us who follow after and attempt, in our own small way, to emulate some of what he has taught us all.

    Dying is most difficult on those who are left behind. For those who "pass over" the pain and difficulties have all gone away. While it is especially sad for his family, they have enjoyed a unique opportunity to be "up close and personal" with this most interesting man.

    May the remainder of his journey be as pain free as possible without rendering the mind unable to function.

    Regards,
    JMI

  3. #3
    Programmer Run Amock... Bengaly's Avatar
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    Amazing person!!!!!!!!, may his name will never be forgotten in History!
    "knowledge is now free at last, everything should be free from now on, enjoy knowledge and life and never work for everybody else"

  4. #4
    I guess I know something about his condition as I work as a nurse in an oncology department and looking at the photo his skin looks icteric which basically means (as he writes) that his liver has either ceased to function or is about to. Which means he gets palliative care: no more cancer treatments just a lot of morphine and/or oxycodone based drugs.

    Which basically means that it is a good time to start saying your farewells to people you know.

    Thanks fravia+. You showed me a whole new world.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JMI View Post
    Dying is most difficult on those who are left behind. For those who "pass over" the pain and difficulties have all gone away. While it is especially sad for his family, they have enjoyed a unique opportunity to be "up close and personal" with this most interesting man.
    You are right on the money. The worst part of my job as a nurse is not seeing people die but seeing those that are left mourning. The sadness does go away eventually but the ones who have passed away will keep on living in our hearts and minds. And in the Internet in case of fravia+.

  6. #6
    Howdy,

    I'm glad I got the chance to know the man personally.
    Am I sad, yes.

    ORC was important in that he was the first to write publicly about software cracking.
    Fravia took us to an entire different level.
    When he gave us searchlores, he gave us another masterpiece.

    Much like a great artist or composer.

    The amount of knowledge he has given us has no value.

    As a teacher he brought out the best qualities in everyone.
    Patient and giving of himself and only asking that you take what you learn and share it with others.

    Shit, I had to fight with him over paying for beers .

    Woodmann

  7. #7
    I've had the unfortunate personal experience of witnessing two individuals go through a similar experience within the last 60 days. The first went from apparent good health and no complaints to being wasted away and thin and gaunt and succumbing within 30 days to massive tumors throughout his body. His having also had a major tumor in the liver, I can also see the similarities in Fravia's face.

    The other was diagnosed longer and, like fravia, went through several treatments of drugs and then radiation. Like fravia, she finally went home to die in the company of her family and a few friends. From discontinuance of treatment to passing was again approximately 30 days and morphine and/or oxycodine based drugs were barely sufficient to control the pain. I'm sure she considered her passage to the next plane of existence as a blessing on many levels.

    Hopefully, fravia's own journey will not be as unpleasant and he will enjoy, for as long as possible, the company of his family and friends. In the end, that is really all there is in this life. You really don't get to take anything else with you, wherever one believe we go after we shuffle off this mortal coil.

    Regards,
    JMI

  8. #8
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    Sad. So so sad.

  9. #9
    Master Of Nebulah Frost Polaris's Avatar
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    Thanks Fravia+ for the immense work you did for the community. Without your efforts many people, me included, won't have started the great adventure of RE. Fatti forza & Tieni duro!
    Stand In The Fog With So Cold A Heart... Watching The Death Of The Sun...

  10. #10
    Programmer Run Amock... Bengaly's Avatar
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    You can send him a farewell / gratitude / thank you email, and write your appreciation while you still can.
    "knowledge is now free at last, everything should be free from now on, enjoy knowledge and life and never work for everybody else"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by JMI View Post
    From discontinuance of treatment to passing was again approximately 30 days and morphine and/or oxycodine based drugs were barely sufficient to control the pain.
    JMI...I have been through similar experiences, the worst with my dad. I have a very low opinion of medical authorities, surgeons in particular. Many physicians are caught up in paradigms that make little sense, and hospitals are increasingly being run by surgeons who go beyond their technical abilities and become involved in diagnosing patients. I don't care how good a surgeon is with a knife, he/she is not qualified to diagnose patients in other disciplines. I had a student surgeon, studying gastroenterological surgery, for example, tell me he disagreed with a course of treatment given me by a cardiologist. Surgeons I have encountered are plain arrogant.

    Linus Pauling was one of the premier researchers in the field of chemistry. Later in life, he turned his attention to what he called orthomolecular nutrition, which is essentially giving the body nutrients it needs to maintain and repair itself. In consultation with a Scottish cancer specialist, Ewan Cameron, Pauling commented that high doses (10 grams) of vitamin C could relieve the pain suffered by terminal cancer patients. As JMI points out, terminal cases are usually abandoned to pain-suppression using drugs, and they essentially starve to death.

    The problem with starving to death is scurvy. It is a very painful disease in which the body literally falls apart due to a lack of collagen, the cement that sticks cells together. Collagen relies on vitmain C, and if there is not enough C, the body falls apart. Gums bleed and teeth loosen, and so on. Doctors will stand by and watch this happen, oblivious to any attempt at treating the patient.

    When my dad was in his last days, the doctor gave him a prescription for Demarol, a cheap replacement for morphine. It's a terrible drug that gives the victim hallucinations while relieving pain. I had been giving him 10 grams of vitamin C mixed with a multivitamin and vitamin E, along with a liquid protein drink. The doctor called to see if I was giving him the Demarol, and I told him he didn't want it. The doctor arrogantly accused me of keeping it from him and came around to see my dad personally.

    When asked if he was in pain, which the doctor was trained to believe he should be, my dad replied that he was uncomfortable but not in pain. The doctor tried to talk my dad into taking the pain killer but he did not want it. I would have given my dad the pain-killer in a minute if he'd wanted it, but in all the time I spent with him until the end, he did not appear to be in pain. I offered it to him several times, explaining what it was, but he didn't want it.

    The body is capable of miraculous healing through it's own processes. One thing I have noticed with several terminal friends is their lack of willingness to fight the illness. Many people have no doubt heard of the curses placed on Africans by witchdoctors or shamans. I was just reading a book by a British Army officer who oversaw a battalion of Nigerian soldiers. He talked about several cases involving soldiers in which an African would simply lie down, with a fixed stare, and die within several days, after receiving a curse (Ju Ju). He noticed that as well in battle, in Burma, where some African soldiers died from superficial wounds. They had no desire to recover.

    I can understand a person feeling so ill that he/she has no desire to survive, but I can't understand a profession that is willing to standby without trying to promote recovery. When Pauling and Cameron put out their book on Vitamin C and Cancer, a Dr. Moertell debunked their claim after studying their method. When asked by Pauling what he had done to reproduce Pauling's experiment, Moertell replied that he'd used 250 mg of C, which is 2.5% of the 10,000 mg dosage used by Pauling. Not only that, he kept a terminal patient on chemotherapy, a deadly poison. When asked why, Moertell replied that he felt a need to make it appear as if he was doing something.

    Today, some doctors are using over 100 grams of C intravenously, to treat people for maladies including snake bite. One man who had a football sized tumour in his stomach, used over 100 grams a day in divided dosages, stopping the spread of the tumour. Cameron predicted that reaction as C helped the surrounding tissue to encase the tumour. Cancer research is so much in the dark ages about such treatment, however, that they regard it as a joke.

    In their book, neither Pauling nor Cameron make unreasonable claims for vitamin C as an adjunct to cancer therapy, but they both noticed marked improvement in those cancer subjects who took the C. A few experienced spontaneous remission, and one had a remission, stopped taking the C and got the cancer back. When he started back on the C, the remission re-appeared.

    It's terribly sad that arrogant SOB's in the medical profession are completely lacking in imagination and ingenuity. The moment a person contracts cancer, he/she should be subjected to a positive program of mental therapy along with the optimum level of nutrition with mega-vitamin therapy.

  12. #12
    Programmer Run Amock... Bengaly's Avatar
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    WaxfordSqueers,
    Indeed, Doctors sometimes make a patient's situation become much more worse that it was initially was, all because of "words" and their inability to give a patient positive feedbak (Hope).

    as it was in the case of Milton H. Erickson:
    At age 17, he contracted polio, and was so severely paralysed that the doctors believed he would die. On the critical night where he was at his worst, he had another formative "autohypnotic experience.

    Erickson:
    As I lay in bed that night, I overheard the three doctors tell my parents in the other room that their boy would be dead in the morning. I felt intense anger that anyone should tell a mother her boy would be dead by morning. My mother then came in with as serene a face as can be. I asked her to arrange the dresser, push it up against the side of the bed at an angle. She did not understand why, she thought I was delirious. My speech was difficult. But at that angle by virtue of the mirror on the dresser I could see through the doorway, through the west window of the other room. I was damned if I would die without seeing one more sunset. If I had any skill in drawing, I could still sketch that sunset.
    "knowledge is now free at last, everything should be free from now on, enjoy knowledge and life and never work for everybody else"

  13. #13
    Fravia was one of the most amazing person I've seen throughout my whole life. It is a Huge loss to have to loose such a brilliant person. My utmost respect to him, and may he be remembered for centuries to come.
    Externalist

  14. #14
    Sad news indeed...
    Bon vent !
    Please consider donating to help Woodmann.com staying online (here is why).
    Any amount greatly appreciated. Thank you.

  15. #15
    JMI...I have been through similar experiences, the worst with my dad. I have a very low opinion of medical authorities, surgeons in particular. Many physicians are caught up in paradigms that make little sense, and hospitals are increasingly being run by surgeons who go beyond their technical abilities and become involved in diagnosing patients. I don't care how good a surgeon is with a knife, he/she is not qualified to diagnose patients in other disciplines. I had a student surgeon, studying gastroenterological surgery, for example, tell me he disagreed with a course of treatment given me by a cardiologist. Surgeons I have encountered are plain arrogant.
    Surgeons are best when doing surgery and at least over here surgeons consult specialists from other fields and don't make any decisions (for example) about cancer treatments. About your case: gastroenterologist disagreeing about cardiological treatments is just plain wrong and I think your assessment of the surgeon is correct: a plain arrogant bastard who should spend rest of his career doing autopsies. Of cows.

    There's and old joke about surgeons "The surgery was a success but the patient died".

    The problem with starving to death is scurvy. It is a very painful disease in which the body literally falls apart due to a lack of collagen, the cement that sticks cells together. Collagen relies on vitmain C, and if there is not enough C, the body falls apart. Gums bleed and teeth loosen, and so on. Doctors will stand by and watch this happen, oblivious to any attempt at treating the patient.
    There's a thing about treating patients: doctors give the guidelines and give permissions to administer drugs and *nurses* do the actual work. It the nurses who have constant contact with the patients and are responsible for the actual caretaking. If a patient is clearly malnutritioned (it shouldn't go that far...) then it is nurses' job to find out what patient wants to eat and can eat. If eating is impossible orally then there are other ways of getting the patient to eat: for example a PEG-tube (a gastric feeding tube). Proper nutrition is one of the keys to recovery.

    When my dad was in his last days, the doctor gave him a prescription for Demarol, a cheap replacement for morphine. It's a terrible drug that gives the victim hallucinations while relieving pain. I had been giving him 10 grams of vitamin C mixed with a multivitamin and vitamin E, along with a liquid protein drink. The doctor called to see if I was giving him the Demarol, and I told him he didn't want it. The doctor arrogantly accused me of keeping it from him and came around to see my dad personally.

    When asked if he was in pain, which the doctor was trained to believe he should be, my dad replied that he was uncomfortable but not in pain. The doctor tried to talk my dad into taking the pain killer but he did not want it. I would have given my dad the pain-killer in a minute if he'd wanted it, but in all the time I spent with him until the end, he did not appear to be in pain. I offered it to him several times, explaining what it was, but he didn't want it.
    About your dad's treatment: if patient does not want a drug then it is doctor's job to find a different one with similar qualities. Also Demerol (pethidine) should never be used when treating cancer patients. Or any patients for that matter. Newer opioids are far better and the way to get almost all the pain to go away is to give the drug as much as is needed (when treating terminal patients, that is) and to combine several different drugs.

    The body is capable of miraculous healing through it's own processes. One thing I have noticed with several terminal friends is their lack of willingness to fight the illness.
    That is true, some cancer patients seem to live as long as they still have the fight in them. Just today I had two patients who just could not go on anymore and said that they would want to die and I expect that neither will be there tomorrow morning when I go to work...

    I can understand a person feeling so ill that he/she has no desire to survive, but I can't understand a profession that is willing to standby without trying to promote recovery.
    I have no idea where you live but in my country this is not true. Then again my country has socialized healthcare so the doctors don't have to think about what the patient can afford but what the patient needs.

    It's terribly sad that arrogant SOB's in the medical profession are completely lacking in imagination and ingenuity. The moment a person contracts cancer, he/she should be subjected to a positive program of mental therapy along with the optimum level of nutrition with mega-vitamin therapy.
    I really don't know about vitamin C and cancer so I have to read about it and ask the doctors at work about this. I did find the following link and it shows that the subject is under study. The problem with studying cancer treatments, especially cytostatics (chemotherapy) is that it is ethically wrong to perform double-blind testing as it would most likely kill a lot of healthy people.

    http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/anon/abstract.00002352-200811000-00024.htm;jsessionid=JwKZH2J9gX0MzQCpyYJXHjRjmXLDTK771LyfWG09w9nt2P36qnXN!928310026!181195629!8091!-1

    I am really sorry what your father and you had to experience but some doctors seem to be oblivious to the fact that there is a thing called palliative treatment.

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