View Full Version : Challenge to all you so brilliant people...with motivation ;)
Snatch
March 7th, 2002, 23:05
Well there are some who think they are the world and can crack everything so here is my challenge to you. You want $100,000. Rhetorical question. Yes, you do.
http://www.bodacion.com/bodacionChallenge.html
Interesting to see if anyone ever does break it
.
Snatch
Woodmann
March 8th, 2002, 02:08
Howdy,
How the hell can you figure an encryption scheme
from a text file?
I think their 100,000 is safe unless they allow cheating,
which they dont
Peace, Woodmann
Kythen
March 8th, 2002, 07:15
Eh, don't waste your time. Think about it a second. You can fit an infinite number of functions to a given set of numbers. I could do some statistical stuff on the 999 numbers and come up with some function that passes through all of them. Doesn't mean squat as the company could have chosen an algorithm that works out to being an entirely different function that also passes through those points. Unless they give the algo, they're not accomplishing anything with this lameness.
Just my sqrt(2) cents worth
Kythen
Snatch
March 8th, 2002, 12:26
Hehe I guess you guys are right in some ways. Though I think their reason for doing this contest is that they dont want to try to break their code they want everyone else to it is free security testing in essense. But I guess some challenges are better than others and a sequence of 999 could fit infinite possibilities though its unlikely that you could find many and if you did find one it probably would be submitable but wrong I guess. Alas maybe not so great a challenge but if you get lucky or what not you will still rake in some cash
.
Snatch
koyaan
March 8th, 2002, 16:51
did someone sign up for the challenge?
i'd like to see the "bodacions" but i dont have a usable
email adress atm
i gonna be so rich MUAHHAAA
cheers
koyaan
PS:
did you notice their HYDRA webserver project?
pfft
sounds funny
HYDRA is a revolutionary Internet server built without an operating system from the ground up to be totally secure. Based on a hard realtime embedded architecture
HYDRA is unhackable, virusproof, and features onboard strong SSL encryption
mike
March 8th, 2002, 17:28
The only description they give of the series is
x_n = p(x_(n1) + i)
They don't say what p or i are, although p has to be nonlinear to match their description of the orbit.
I've written for more info on p & i and will post in RCE Cryptographics if I get any response.
Woodmann
March 8th, 2002, 22:27
I have the 999 bloWdacions.
I just need to find away to automate the answer process
so I can start guessing
Peace, Woodmann
mike
March 8th, 2002, 22:32
From the webpage:
<quote>
This is a "Show Your Work" Problem
To make sure that you did not just guess an arbitrary bodacion, you must be able to demonstrate that you have cracked the code by presenting all your work, and by being able to crack any series of bodacions.
</quote>
Woodmann
March 9th, 2002, 02:59
errrrrrrr,
I'm gonna guess anyway.......
I dont see any other way to arrive at the answer
in my lifetime.
(I'm old)
Peace, Woodmann
mike
March 10th, 2002, 03:49
If you have the actual equation, you can do lots of things to get the answer. That's what cryptanalysis is all about. Of course, you may end up needing 2^20 or 2^32 to break it, but that's still small enough to be a reasonable attack. It won't get you the $100K, though, and that's why this challenge is bogus.
Mike
mike
March 11th, 2002, 19:17
h**p://www.bodacion.com/challengeFaq.html
"You use the formula x(n) = p(x(n1)+1)to describe your bodacion formula. What do the variables mean and can you provide some more information on this formula?
This is a simple progression formula that illustrates a mathematic relationship between the bodacion x(n) and the position n in the Raki series, with a multiplier p. The method of selecting the values for the parameters p and n is patentpending. "
Apparently it's a 1, not an i. This looks like it'll break easily.
mike
March 12th, 2002, 17:52
OK, since the additive constant is 1, they have to be using numbers smaller than 1 to get chaos; otherwise they would increase in size. That fits with the claim that they use floating point. A cryptographic hash function could completely obscure even a counter; I doubt they're using something that sophisticated, but it makes the analysis almost impossible.
There's some fudgy words about the form of the bodacions in the faq; it sounds like they don't use this hash in the product.
More and more bogus.
Quote:
Hi Mike,
To answer your question about Bodacions, they use floating point arithmetic.
Regarding the hash function, no, we are not able to disclose that at this time.
Good luck!
Bodacion Technologies
>Thank you for your last response! It was very helpful.
>I have two more questions:
>Do the bodacions use integer arithmetic or floating point?
>Are you willing to disclose the hash function?

Woodmann
March 12th, 2002, 21:44
Hi Mike,
So they dont use THIS hash function in the product.
I still think this is all bullshit.
If they wont give out any more information to back up their claims then this IS nothing more then a guessing game.
Your correct.... this is bogus.
Peace, Woodmann
foxthree
March 13th, 2002, 13:22
All the same, folks, it is interesting stuff (though crypto challenges are not entirely a new idea
).
I entirely agree with Mike's postings. This is what cryptanalysis is all about. You'll have to guess the algo as will as its insides
Hard work eh! and I don't mean this because of the prize money as we all know this is surely a bogus...
As +ORC used to say "Reverse for Knowledge"
Signed,
 FoxThree
PS: Mike, may be we can PM and discuss some specifics..
mike
March 14th, 2002, 23:51
Quote:
Hi Mike,
Yes, this hash is used internally by the HYDRA server.
Bodacion Technologies 
Anyone have a copy?
YoungMann
March 19th, 2002, 12:27
The bodacions are of the form xxxxxxxx
After observing closely the 999 bodacions,
i found one digit in 2nd place
x8xxxxxx
I am not getting any clue to find other digits.
Any clues for further analysis ?
YoungMann
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