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BanMe
February 15th, 2011, 19:10
So in travels I was quantifying my beliefs to someone I hold dear to me, and in context I was called a 'secular humanist', which I can relate to, this was strange to be called something..So I investigated it..

I guess you know when 'Seeing Diane Sawyer' say "Go Humans" with watson you almost ..

Woodmann
February 15th, 2011, 20:51
Howdy,

I think most of us here are Humanist.
It's basically the eternal search for truth and knowledge.
Is it sad to not have faith? No because once that has failed you,
you have nothing but to trust your own instincts.

I don't blindly believe anything, hence, I am a Humanist.

Or as Flava Flav said "Don't believe the hype".

Never believe what others say or print.
If you are like me you need to know for yourself.

Woodmann

CluelessNoob
February 16th, 2011, 09:31
Quote:
[Originally Posted by Woodmann;89455]I think most of us here are Humanist.
It's basically the eternal search for truth and knowledge.


Which any good nihilist would say is pointless, since neither actually exist.

BanMe
February 16th, 2011, 14:03
The 'technicians' thought...."I should have not thought without 'thinking' where it would lead 'us'."?

Woodmann
February 16th, 2011, 22:34
Well.........

Both exist. One exists longer than the other .

It's not necessarily nihilistic to not believe, it's
more humanist in that to believe that nothing really
"is not", but that things are not always what they
seem to be.

This is the external search. What "is" and what "is not".

Is this code doing what it should or is it doing something
that I don't understand?
Conversely, I don't understand what it is doing BUT,
it should be doing this and it isn't.

So it remains eternal to continue to search.
Once you become content, you have stopped
learning and begin dying. A bit tragic?
Perhaps for some but this how I choose to view
my life and what it means to me. And ME is the
important part.

Philosophy can be a mutha.
Roll this around a while.......

Philosophy is what YOU make of it.
Don't just read Kant or Nietzsche and think,
"oh so thats what I think".
Take from it and learn. It's as simple as that.

I used to think I was Agnostic until I realized that
it was to narrow of a term. I read a ton of philosophical
shit and came to realize that I am what "I" am.

I can be defined somewhat but in the grand scheme
of things, I am me and do not believe in anything
that my brain can't comprehend. I dont try to
over analyze anything. Thats when it becomes painful.

Dont think of who you should be or what "mold"
you should fit. Just be you and relax in that you are
confident of who you are,
else philosophy will drive you insane.

Woodmann

BanMe
February 17th, 2011, 10:46
very well said..still there is more to learn about 'us' as a species..I can't really back this up with 'proof' and the wise part of me says 'it's just a hypothesis' and a 'feeling gathered' that a shift in 'intellectual property' is coming...it is spreading in the mid-east and other areas currently..this 'could be' the outcome of our own oppression, and technology being able to 'fuel' revolt in areas that are not managed 'the Interweb', and 'the success of stuxnet' is opening the way to change on new grounds.. the game is still afoot and is far more interesting then any of 'us' can investigate alone.

Woodmann
February 17th, 2011, 22:47
Howdy,

You know of what you speak.

But like I said, you will need to define some limitations
or else this will drive you insane.

Thats the reason philosophy is such a bitch.
There is no real answer unless you choose a
ready made definition from those that came before us.

If you choose a particular definition, you will forever
be stuck in that mold. Choose to be "flexible" and
see the ways of all things to arrive at a somewhat
"settling" answer that will put you at ease.

Philosophy at it's base is to discover the "answer"
to what one seeks.
Most times that answer is attainable.
The times that it is not is when you need to decide
how much further along the road you want to travel.

What if there is no end to the road?

Woodmann

JMI
February 18th, 2011, 00:28
OR ... What if there is no road???

Well grasshopper, then we just try to forge a path through the wilderness until we can see a little light. And if there is no light, we just try to "feel" our way through the darkness, imagining we understand what we "touch" without really "seeing" it.

Regards,

BanMe
February 18th, 2011, 11:01
Thinking that 'tough thought'..?nice mov'es JMI in xref.. I bite none the less. But "Can one without 'seeing' the path to a 'end', attain the knowledge to 'see' new beginnings?"

JMI
February 18th, 2011, 11:47
Corrected my misspelling. Perhaps there is no "end."

Consider that the "journey," itself, is what we strive for.

Regards,

Woodmann
February 18th, 2011, 23:05
Howdy,

Maybe you can attain the knowledge to see a new beginning.

There is this point where YOU must decide. Am I satisfied with
what I have found or is there more. If you can never be
satisfied then the road will never end and you will continue
to travel an infinite loop.

Somewhere you must decide, else this will become impossible.
You can decide now and then later rethink it and attack it
again BUT, somewhere you must leave the loop, take a new
approach and go at it again.

Your thinking has to be flexible in order to reach some conclusions.
If you remain rigid, you will never be able to expand your brain.

Somethings are black and white. The sun will rise. I will breathe.
Somethings are gray. Do I want chicken for lunch. When will I
shower.
Consider what you want. If what you desire is too far out of
your realm of understanding, you will have to decide.

I decide by considering the different points of view of others
whom I feel have a greater knowledge of the topic then I do.
My brain will process this and settle on whats seems more
plausible. Once I have picked one I will pursue it.
If after further review I decide it is wrong, I will go back
and start the search again.

Sometimes this will yield no answer so I need to make peace
with the thought that somethings I cannot find an answer
and have peace of mind knowing I did my best to find the
answer I thought I wanted but could not.

When I believe I have found what I am searching for,
I have attained something new. Now its time to start
a new search.

When you say a new beginning, are you saying a completely
new direction, 180 degrees to where you are now or just
to refocus on where you want to be?

I have a difficult time with the 180 shift. It takes me a long
time to do it. I have done it many times in my life.
It just takes time.

Woodmann

We can take this up via PM if you want.
I have a funny feeling nobody wants to get involved
in philosophical conversations because they are so ambiguous.

BanMe
February 19th, 2011, 16:17
I would be most pleased to go a 'round' or for a 'round or two,with fixins'.. which I think is intended for such things... :}

JMI
February 19th, 2011, 19:04
As they used to say in the military: "Smoke um if you got um ... bum um if you don't.

And please promise not to inhale.

Regards

BanMe
February 20th, 2011, 20:15
Idea's are for later times..I guess..

So back to philosophy and 'questions',

why is a 'Idea or solution' complimented by a style, restricted to but 1 'venture'?

You must 'hit' first to start the ball rolling...on the PM front.. o0

BanMe
February 22nd, 2011, 23:09
Are we but the 'animals' that our decisions lead us to be?If so, logic produces many outcomes and with increased probability over time for a 'leveling' effect to occur.
Many of those outcomes are 'good' and 'profitable' to the 'wolves culling the sheep'. But truly what they hold captive is beyond their ken.. It's A concept based on the resiliency and voracity of life..But what allows the 'wolves' to 'feed the sheep' and not on them?..I'm hungry and lamb sounds good(in the literal sense)..If I could eat information, I would go 'back to school the rest of my life'.

I meant a new beginning as a gathering of what was 'learned' and a 'refocus'.

But its somehow more then what 'we' make it,as it was intended so it 'shall be'?

My b-day approaches and I am dreading it so,But I have confronted 'my' demons and spent 'long hours' thinking of the plights this world faces, reading philosophy and 'scientific journals' in hopes of finding the answers to questions "I found hard to ask others" and I have given of "Me" in ways that 'no other would'...Some took that as a 'cleansing'(which was 'nice'), some took it as undeniable proof of my insanity. Without 'hearing the whole 'story' both those straws can be drawn from what "I" wrote. Am I 'proud' of my past..no. Am I resolute in my feelings towards 'life'.. yes.

At "peace",but still 'questioning', is the state 'being' I have come to.

JMI
February 23rd, 2011, 13:52
BanMe:

You state that your birthday is approaching and you are "dreading it so." From "any" "philosophical point of view" that should NEVER happen.

First, if your birthday wasn't approaching, you would no longer be among the living. While this might suggest a more "restful" existence, there is much philosophical debate about whether one would "know" of the "non-existence" in the here and now.

So the approach of another year means more experience gained and more time to attempt to do something useful with one's life. One thing that certainly appears to be true, is that "life" really isn't about "oneself," sometimes it may be about groups or collections of humanity, which sometimes includes "ourselves" without being devoted to "us" or "me".

Life just "is." That is the biology. What "we" make of it, is the philosophical component.

The power of "ideas" may wax and wain, but it always remains powerful. Something in the human spirit always seeks it out, when simple survival has not taken the principle role in individual existence.

And as a point of reference, I will achieve my 65th year in a few more days.

Regards,

BanMe
February 23rd, 2011, 16:01
It was not philosophy from where this feeling 'came' though.
It's only my 30th year and the figure is what drove that statement,"knowing" time is ever moving forward to the 1 thing we all face...the water calls?

Woodmann
February 23rd, 2011, 17:12
Quote:
the water calls?


Soon

Woodmann

JMI
February 23rd, 2011, 17:57
Well ... maybe you can find inspiration from the "Ode to Call Of Water" - by Far Seer Direwolf - Ravenholdt.

Regards,

Woodmann
February 23rd, 2011, 22:21
Upon further thought about "the water calls"......

I believe I misinterpreted the meaning.
If you are talking about the water sign then I can understand.

Even if you are talking about wow I understand.

The wow reference, I only see the words "difficult journey".
I'm going with the water sign because that I understand.

Woodmann

BanMe
February 23rd, 2011, 23:22
I was speaking of death..And touched on a poets abstraction to convey the 'thought of knowing non-existence'..The form you applied was just as intended The wow thing,I was unaware of... I'm not that good yet..

JMI
February 24th, 2011, 02:22
BanMe:

I don't pretend to be that good either. I simply put "the water calls," without the quotes, in google and looked at the results.

The first two hits were about WOW and what I posted.

Of course "the water calls" could be seen as a metaphore for returning to the safety of the womb, where we were alive, but without obligation or responsibilities.


Regards,

BanMe
February 25th, 2011, 16:44
Recently I was 'offered' something far more interesting then the thought that transpires here.. The points where of a nature I found hard to reply to..Because they come from the 'giving' to which I can recognize, cause to give is not 'why' we do it, it is done because 'we can do it'. The smile or small word of interest is all it takes to receive that 'nod or smile' in return..sometimes it results in the outcomes our minds have already 'played' with and sometimes not.. I know a few things of what I feel life could be... It could be about following your callings. It could be about thinking, and it should be about 'actively' thinking and not always thinking of what you think isn't possible...

I seek the path builders, for my path leads 'there'?

Barneyknows
February 25th, 2011, 20:37
Very deep stuff. And great responders for you too! Their responses seem to bring balance and push you forward to higher thinking. Nice.

I have something to say in reference to the statement you made in one of your writings... But "Can one without 'seeing' the path to a 'end', attain the knowledge to 'see' new beginnings?"

For this I give you a word called "Faith". We move forward not ever seeing or knowing the end result when we start out. Nor does is conclude the way we thought it would or had planned it to be. Something along the way always forces an adjustment or a re-evaluation which then shifts the path. Now if we were to always see or know the outcome/end and it truly unfolds the way we thought and planned it to be would mean there is nothing to learn and therefore why go in search of? The desire to seek would be lost. So our faith in ourselves and the world providing around us propels us towards our destiny and towards what we "think" we need or want in search of answers. Some to which we find and many to which we do not. Therfore, acceptance and forgiveness play a huge role in all our lives. Without them we would no doubt shrivel up and die. Obtaining the "answers" is also a very personal/individual thing for each and every person is different in their thoughts and search. Experiences are what give rise to new thoughts. Not someone elses experiences, your own.

The second thing is to remember the fact that you will wake up tomorrow is a "new" beginning. An opportunity to begin anew if you so choose. Each breath you take is a "new" beginning. Each step you take is a "new" beginning. Each thought you have is a "new" beginning to an end somewhere somehow & someplace. One can rehash over and over and over in their mind the same thought or theory so they think. But no one can without having a new thought appear. Good or bad it is a new thought and is up to them to determine how to either nurture it or get rid of it entirely.

Here's another one to ponder....

One can convince themselves of ANYTHING if they tell themselves something long enough. And as a result of our thoughts and beliefs we attract circumstances and people that support those thoughts. By the mere beliefs we carry our energy eminates from our body attracting like beings.

A powerful tool we all have within us. Someone very dear and near to me used to say...Be careful of what you ask for...you may just get it.

One last word...you are moving in a great direction and have a beautiful mind. Keep it open and take all you can handle into it. Then form your opinions/beliefs keeping them soft and flexible so they too may grow.

HAPPY 30TH BIRTHDAY MY BEAUTIFUL SON!

BanMe
March 1st, 2011, 20:44
...o0 lol?

"intellectual property"

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html interesting..

There are others as paranoid as myself..o0