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Aimless
July 8th, 2008, 06:53
Yes, yes... before you shout, I have already found the same.

They are under Fravia's old essay base mirrors hosted on Woodmann.

Problem is there are 2 papers which F+ has named as Hutch's 7th paper and the NAMES of those files do not make sense (for example hutch28.htm is actually paper four).

While I have ALL hutch's papers, I can't help feeling I am missing something (considering F+'s intentional non-linearity of his old sites) from Hutch.

Therefore, if anyone can confirm that Hutch has indeed written ONLY SEVEN papers (Fall and Resurrection of assembler) in F+'s old PAPERS sections OR whether he has written more in those content, I would be highly appreciative.

And of course, the cherry on the cake would be if Hutch dug up his archives, renamed his papers properly, zipped them and sent them to my email id. Heck! I'm not even partial to WHO sends it to me as long as someone does (yeah right, like when hell freezes over eh?).

Nevertheless a confirmation that total of 7 papers are all there is on this will be highly appreciated.

Have Phun,

evlncrn8
July 8th, 2008, 08:45
doesnt the + go before the name?

Aimless
July 8th, 2008, 09:47
Or, as you would know, old hands really used ++ instead of only a + while communicating with each other so that there would be no mistakes as to who the 'other' party was...

But no, I think he's traditionally referred as F+ rather than +F....

Have Phun

dELTA
July 8th, 2008, 16:10
Code:
[root@woodmann fravia]# ls | grep hutch
hutch1.htm
hutch28.htm
hutch_61.htm
hutch_65.htm
hutcheq.htm
hutchif1.htm
hutch_su.htm
Seems to be seven of them indeed.

And if I'm not mistaken, each reverser who earned the "+" was free to place it either before or after their name, which resulted in different choice for different people. Fravia chose to place his "+" after his name indeed.

JMI
July 8th, 2008, 16:55
Damn:

I've posted this information two times now, and both times it has apparently times out and asked me to log in again.

Let's see if I can be fast enough to get it to work this time.

There are several sites which contend that:

Fravia is a pseudonym/handle for a European cracker (his real name, according to his autobiography, is Fjalar Ravia). His "official" page appears to be here: http://www.fravia.com/whoiam.htm

This page appears to contain the same general information and a supposed picture of the Master:

http://fravia.2113.ch/io13.htm

However, the photo appears to be a much earlier style of photography, although it does resemble, somewhat, the man who gave talks at Recon in 2005 and 2006, of which there are video copies available on the net.

Interestingly, the picture which accompanies this information on our own Fravia site, appears to bear a picture of Tolkien. See this reference;

http://71.6.196.237/fravia/io13.htm

and compare it with:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien

And certainly, in the information contained in our archive, dELTA's observation is certainly correct, that "+" sign owners were free to, and certainly did use the "badge" before or after their Nick, as it suited their personal preference. And that is how it should be.

Regards,

Aimless
July 8th, 2008, 23:44
Quote:
[Originally Posted by dELTA;75751]
Code:
[root@woodmann fravia]# ls | grep hutch
hutch1.htm
hutch28.htm
hutch_61.htm
hutch_65.htm
hutcheq.htm
hutchif1.htm
hutch_su.htm
Seems to be seven of them indeed.

And if I'm not mistaken, each reverser who earned the "+" was free to place it either before or after their name, which resulted in different choice for different people. Fravia chose to place his "+" after his name indeed.


THAT IS PRECISELY the reason I asked whether there are only 7 papers... There seem to be more:

http://www.woodmann.com/fravia/hutquest.htm --- one of the continued papers!

What I meant by names of files not making sense... Anyhoos... guess there are now 8 papers (though long ago, I distinctly recall there being 9 papers).

Maybe a grep of the CONTENTS of the files rather than the names for 'hutch'?

Thanks for the assist anyways guys...

Have Phun

Kayaker
July 9th, 2008, 00:10
SLH's seventh paper
The sting

http://www.woodmann.com/fravia/hutsting.htm

I did a search on my home archive using the pseudonym "SLH". Like the last one Aimless posted, there is no occurence of "hutch" in the text.

Now how the heck did you remember there were 9 papers?

esther
July 9th, 2008, 09:29
http://71.6.196.237/fravia/blackbo.htm
Compare woodmann's link and see any difference

disavowed
July 27th, 2008, 18:27
Quote:
[Originally Posted by JMI;75754]Fravia is a pseudonym/handle for a European cracker (his real name, according to his autobiography, is Fjalar Ravia).

FYI, Fjalar Ravia is not his real name

JMI
July 27th, 2008, 19:26
That's why I said: "according to his autobiography."

I've never had the pleasure of meeting our "founding father," and the only thing I am reasonably confident about is that he's not Tolkien.

Regards,

disavowed
July 29th, 2008, 23:07
Right, I wasn't implying that you actually thought that was his real name, I just wanted to help set the record straight for anyone who thought it might be the case.

JMI
July 30th, 2008, 12:11
I know that you know that I know that we know that I don't know ...

It might not be as deeply concealed as the search for +ORC but it is an interesting "enigma wrapped in a conundrum" trying to learn as much about one of the "founding fathers" as one can. I found it quite humorous that he used the picture of Tolkien.

Regards,

Silver
July 30th, 2008, 12:55
Perhaps it's just me, but does anyone else find this whole nom de plume and "mysterious stranger" personality quite tiring? Certainly these people made significant contribution in their own right, but the "hype" around +ORC or Fravia or several others seems all out of proportion to their individual merits. There are clearly reasons - especially within this community - for people to use pseudonyms for privacy purposes, but this has gone way beyond that.

I'll be a heretic, but reversing was going on a long, long time before +ORC arrived. I can remember reversers in the 80's, and no doubt JMI will recall examples from further back than that. And there are others out there whose achievements are far more impressive. Contemporaries such as Hitchhikr, Boostr and Fanjita are reversing console protection under daily threat of Sony's mighty fist of litigation, but they don't surround themselves with this "untouchable" aura.

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it, but remembering and revering are two different things...

</rant>

JMI
July 30th, 2008, 15:33
Silver you have some good points, but maybe some of the criticism about the hype is misdirected. I don't recall +ORC or Fravia, or the others "blowing their own horns" about the accomplishment. I recall a "challenge" to the community, which was, perhaps, somewhat more open than now, where "reversers" who wanted to test their skill set could compete against some challenges created by many of the "best" or "more accomplished" members of the craft for other members of the community to contend against.

I do not recall those who had achieved a + sign being of the mindset that they were entitled to "lord it over" the rest of us "lesser" beings, who had not achieved this badge of accomplishment. We have many very skilled reversers who's skill set is somewhat narrowly focus, perhaps at unpacking, or maybe malware analysis, often by choice or profession. We have many who are more "generalists", whose skill set might be very "wide", but not necessarily as deep as some of the "specialists" in certain fields. And then there are a very few, whose skill set seems to rise above the general groupings.

I always looked at the + sign as a recognition of someone who had reached a certain level of skill set which was, generally, above the level of the many of us who dabble in the field on a "non-professional" level, and simply because it interests us, and helps keep the mind sharp. In this context, the + sign seems no more a greater "ranking" system than many academic "honors" which are bestowed by universities and governments all the time. i don't think that "they" generated any hype about the accomplishment. Not all are interested in a "competative" spirit, content merely to accomplish for accomplishment's sake and learning for the joy of learning. Others, perhaps somewhat envious, were more likely to have been the one's who may have hyped the ranking system.

So, if education, in general, can have Bachelor's, Master's, and Ph.D Degrees, for which there are entrance requirements and examinations and, even papers to write and be judged, what is the harm in a somewhat similar system for those who would like some simple recognition for the skill set they have devoted long and hard effort to acquire? One can not deny that the "test" will be difficult and not that many will achieve the goal, just like the other fields of endeavor.

I'm all in favor of bringing it back and envious of those who have the time and skill set to accomplish such a feat.

Regards,

Silver
July 31st, 2008, 10:40
Good points, eloquently put.

sfeet
August 8th, 2008, 16:29
Quote:
[Originally Posted by Silver;76272]Perhaps it's just me, but does anyone else find this whole nom de plume and "mysterious stranger" personality quite tiring? Certainly these people made significant contribution in their own right, but the "hype" around +ORC or Fravia or several others seems all out of proportion to their individual merits. There are clearly reasons - especially within this community - for people to use pseudonyms for privacy purposes, but this has gone way beyond that.


They got the ball rolling and brought reversing to the mainstream. The timing was perfect, the whole thing started as the Internet started coming out of the Universities' closets.

Woodmann
August 8th, 2008, 20:06
Howdy,

Many people who choose to use an avatar do so with one concern.

To protect themselves from their employer and from lawsuits.
(Much more common in the old days)

I use an avatar to insulate ME from software makers
and people who want to ask me questions like this shit is all covert
and we are planning a military coup.

Sadly, releasing information ie; FREE SPEECH, is frowned upon in the corporate world because of the sensitivity of the work these people do.

And many of the people who visit and post here are working for various government agency's. It is their job to watch what we do and report what they find. This is also true for corporate spies who want to know what the competition is doing and to see if we have figured out their latest protection.

There is no need to be paranoid about any of this.
It is only the free exchange of information. Anyone can come
and read and learn.

Woodmann