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View Full Version : ASProtect and we, reverse engineers.


BlackB
November 2nd, 2000, 13:39
Wow, another message on ASProtect. Maybe we 'd start to call this msgboard the "ASProtect discussion forum".
Anywayz, I wanted to give a short comment on all this "ASProtect" stuff: I'm starting to see myself and all other reverse engineers as "we-work-and-give-advice-for-nothing"-employees of Alex S.
ASProtect is very interesting, studied it a lot too, but I refuse to write anything more about it. There has been written enough, and everybody with a little bit of common sense and some work can find out how it works, and can remove it.
But now, what happens? Everytime the author changes even the slightest thing, new tutorials are written and new discussions are started. So what does the author do? Read all the stuff and improving the protection. He brings out a new version, and we, who seem to LOVE to work for free for other people, start to reverse engineer (nothing wrong until now), and publish how to remove the protection. Author reads those papers to and improves again....you see, i'm starting to believe that we have put hundreds of more time into his product then he, himself has put in it. But don't forget people, that we don't earn a penny with it, and he does.

Now, don't misunderstand what i'm saying here. I 'm the first to give information for free. You see, my site about reverse engineering is 100% commerial-dirt free, and I never want to earn money with it. Nor with my site, nor with cracks I write, nor with tutorials I write.

I suggest you start discussing ASProtect via email, and write tutes about it for personal use, or just to give to a limited amount of people, and certainly not to publish it, or to mail the author how you removed it.

And you know, I hate ASProtect. Not because it's hard to crack, but because an application wrapped with it just sux to use:
1. app becomes pretty much slower (just compare the asprotected and non-asprotected versions of TheBat!)
2. if you only want to try an app, or if you bought it legally, it really sux that you have to disable your softice
3. personally, some asprotected apps crashed when using borland c++ v5.02. (due to the internal debugger it has? or was it just my system? dunno, but i think asprotect is suspect nr. one.)

Comments on this non-prepared maybe lame comment are welcome. but i mean every word of it

greetz

BlackB

ps: Alex, if you wanna know how I remove your protection, it 'll cost you about 500$ :P

goatass
November 2nd, 2000, 14:38
BlackB I'm with you on this 100%. I think it's fine the first few times that we discuss it and write tutorials about a protection and it's fine that the author reads them and improves on his protection, but when it becomes almost an everyday job we have to draw the line. I have no problems helping developers imporove their protections but when I waste all my time everytime a new version comes out and the other just takes my work and improves his protection with no recognition of my (and other people's) work it's not right.

If he wants to improve his protection hire a cracker and they will crack it everytime a new version comes out.

Anyways he only makes small modifications here and there the overall algorithm is the same throughout, just another layer of encryption it's nothing worth wasting your time on.

Once the basic idea on how to do something is known it's just reapplying that idea again and again and maybe improving on it a bit but that's why we are all inteligent people here.

p.s BlackB I agree with you on the $500 to tell him how you cracked it.

Time and knowledge it money.

That's my opinion
goatass

tsehp
November 2nd, 2000, 14:40
hi,
when I made my first program, I was like everyone a newbie, fravia's
site was a kind of open public discussion about protections, how to
remove them and either how to build them.
If we start to discuss such topics with emails, you will confine the knowledge to advanced reversers and not give a chance to new comers on this community.
Sure, they read what we say, even mailing us some fake crack request
to have more confidence with their new version, but don't forget, they
just LEECH, it's very rare to see their point of view.
It's a major part of the game, we improve, they improve and still getting better. It's already a lost battle for them if we keep talking about what we found; and if we start talking privatly, we just kill the
main essence of this place, public, open to everyone, closed to lamers
and crack requesters.
Alex wants to add new features to his product ? What a fun ! I just can't wait for that ! Remember it takes him 2 months to build something new, and only 1 day to reverse it, where's the danger ?
Sincerely yours,

tsehp

nu
November 3rd, 2000, 11:36
i do agree with tsehp here. BB, don't get me wrong, your point is good since what you do is like underpaid (unpaid rather work, but consider this: asprotect author (dont recall his name) would be glad to see that info about reversing his protection has ceased flooding the net. he could relax, and in the end, he would anyway win this "battle" (what a violent, inapprorpiate term). the good point in the current situation is that he keeps on working, you keep on reversing, you both keep up the challenge and learn from each other. he deserves to learn just as well as you do, and i want to believe that you're in the biz not only for the cheap and quick crack (ie having one, definite, simple to crack asprotect version and therefore all the appz instanctly pirated), but for the true reversing fun.

nu

tsehp
November 4th, 2000, 08:19
Just to finish :
There are much more "crackers" than protectionnists, if we just try
and get used to regroup and share the info into some general places,
the protectionnists can update their work as much as they can, there will always be a guy that will get rid of it, then we read his work and
learn. new essay archived into the database, what's the next target ?
That's one of the reasons I putted this msgboard and essay's archive here.
regards,

tsehp

BlackB
November 8th, 2000, 08:01
Okay, thx for all your reply
i see you have a point. i'm not saying i totally agree, but you have a point

greetz

BlackB

ps: hi newral
ps: nice msgboard tsehp

tsehp
November 8th, 2000, 17:44
not to have the last word...
But protectionnist leaching here will only get the tip of the iceberg,
just as an example, famous assembly reversers/programmers like
g-rom , stone, owl, and much others will never give their sources, that
would be a fatal mistake that would ease too much their work.
They are paid for that, with some companies behind, and we're just
an underground community without serious financial resources, sure
we hide our work, but partially.
take care,

tsehp

ThRaX
November 13th, 2000, 23:30
No offense man (not that youd take offense from a lame newbie like me anyway ;D) but I disagree with you... The reason I and many others reverse is for the sport of it. ANd if the author wants to read the publications and improve, GOOD! More fun things to crack, more interesting clever protections to work with...While, newbie that i am, do not know much about ASProtect per say, but in general, I agree witht he idea of authors improving from our work....Good for them, they get more money and dont have as many lamers cracking their stuff, and good for us, more fun things to crack...

Laterz